Topic: Killzone Card Game - HELP (Read 31301 times)

thepineapple1 · « **on:** October 29, 2010, 3:20:51 pm »

To make a long story short:

Around April of this year, I started working on a card game based around Killzone.
They are split into:
- Characters
- Weapons
- Vehicles

I've pretty much decided how graphically it would look,
but haven't had a decision on the mechanics of the game.

(I've also developed my very own card game at the age of I believe 10+ based on nothing but my own personal ideas, being similar (I think) to Yu-Gi-Yo and Magic, but absolutely not like them) - this is so you know I have an idea about TCG.

Coming back on topic:
The problem is that I'm not really sure how the playing field should be set up.
Basically you would have either 1 character (ala Pokemon) being active. To which you would assign a weapon card (if you draw one - otherwise they would have as standard the STA-18 Pistol http://killzone.wikia.com/wiki/StA18_Pistol ).

So far we have 2 problems. Should it be 1 active character at a time, or multiple (kind of like EOJ in a sense).
And second is, how should the attacks work? My initial idea (inspired by RPG's) was that all characters have a set amount of Action Points, and of course each thing they do would take some action points away. (i.e. Firing a pistol once would take 3/10). This Action Points system would make it so that a pistol could be used multiple times, whereas a more powerful weapon, such as an assault rifle, only once (depending on the AP it would require).

The other big problem is that, there are also vehicles which must be included, by vehicles, I mean tanks, flying robot things and such, ships. Here's the imbalance, some of them have attacks, where as others don't have such a purpose. So what should their role be? (And it should be something which does not take the role of the character, more of a side character - i.e. vehicles vs vehicles - but here's the problem, what if the opponent doesn't have a vehicle to counter your vehicle? The vehicle battle is not started? - Then what was the purpose for you to summon a vehicle in the first place if it doesn't benefit you until the opponent 'summons" one as well?

Also as a side question, in stead of Action Points, maybe another system?

ALSO (almost forgot), in Killzone 2 online, each character has 2 badges (which give him each a special ability) .(This is sort of a "Pokemon Power" thing).
I was thinking of making it a sort of Pokemon thing, where you would place the stronger (evolution) of that class on top of the less powerful one. (Naming them i.e. Scout V1 and Scout V2). (Or do you think it would be best for V1 and V2 to be separate cards?)

Because of all these question and also because at the time I was editing the killzone.wikia + making custom cards of EOJ (soon to be viewable here on EOJMarketPlace) I just gave up on this project.

So any feedback, tips, or simple words in English would be a great help, and who knows, I might actually make it happen.
Also shout out for more info!

Jugga · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2010, 3:58:32 pm »

My personal opinions:

1. For starters, you should use a contained board like in EoJ, with 16 squares instead of 9, and have some of them as dead squares (obstacles). Anything larger than 16 squares tends to lose too much strategic tension in my opinion.

2. Definitely multiple characters active. Unlike in RPGs, only one character active in a CCG is way too boring.

3. Include limited ammunition, and the ability to pick up other peoples weapons like in RPGs.

4. About the vehicles, the scenario you're describing would just create measures and counter-measures. It's present even in the most oversimplified games like EndGame, where pure "sissors-cuts-paper" (tanks-kill-infantry, infantry-kills-aircraft, ect.) tactics is employed. This forces the player to have diversified forces, or be dead meat.

If I didn't fully understand your questions, explain it to me (I've never played Killzone).

Jugga · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2010, 4:12:07 pm »

Also, action points would be good (assuming your including movement options), but add to this the ability to "pick up" action points at different points on the board, just like RPG characters can restore their health by finding med packs. But make them limited, say 2-3 points only, and distributed on the board at random times, and on random squares. Maybe have a seperate group of cards for this, with one card being pulled every few turns or so, and each card describing exactly where it is to be placed on the board, and exactly how many points it will add to the players action points when he gets there (1 to 3). You could possibly also place a time limit on how long these points are available before they dissappear off the board, although that doesn't seem in keeping with the game.

thepineapple1 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2010, 4:56:42 pm »

16 sound too huge, might as well be monopoly

I also wouldn't like it to be like EOJ, I could see it working, if the cards were similar to EOJ.

But the thing is, each character card also will have (once you add) a weapon card. So that's 2 cards you need to have for 1 space. An EoJ aproach would be nice, but it would seem as a rip off with a Killzone theme, not as a separate game.

The healthpacks,repair tools and the rest of the equipment would be a card that can be used once (at least for health packs).

For the Action Points, I'm thinking a sort of paper counter (dial/ clock thing), where you would basically sum up and subtract when you take action. OR, you simply get a fixed amount at the begging of each turn (which does not carry over to the next turns) - say 10AP.

Something like this: http://flic.kr/p/8P1egZ

P.S. There is no need to limit bullets, as the limiting factor are the Action Points.
I do understand that maybe limiting bullets, so in the future rounds, the weapon "runs out", and thus you need to discard that card and either put another weapon card, or use your base attack (the pistol). But I think this complicates the game too much, and there would need to be a system in place to count these bullets, this leaves chance for error, and simply way too much stuff.
Plus, you'd expect the character would be killed before running out of bullets. (the KIA character would take the gun with him, so you should think of how many weapon cards to have, and which.

Jugga · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2010, 5:24:46 pm »

Sandbagging points would be a lot more fun than simply losing any points you don't use every turn. And what in the world is a "paper counter (dial/clock thing)"

I guess I can understand your point about overcomplicating the game.

So how big a board were you planning on using then? A huge board could be fun in a way, if the player gets to use a lot of long-range weapons. But if you want people to actually play it, they'll need to have a massive dinner table free or something in order to be able to do so.

Jugga · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2010, 5:26:33 pm »

And I checked your link on the previous post. I thought I was reading RUSSIAN with all that upside-down reverse lettering in it.

thepineapple1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2010, 5:33:09 pm »

Those 4 boxes on the top row (on your side) accommodate 1 card at a time.

While the bottom rows (as I've wrote on the picture - in Pokemon have 5 slots, but of course we can modify according to how it all evolves).

The clock thingy is basically (picture this):
1 paper disk with numbers on it - on the edges (kinda like a clock)
another paper disk (with just 1 slice cut - which would cover everything else, except for 1 slice where you would view the number).
You would rotate the top disk clockwise or counter - depending if you're adding points or subtracting.

It's kinda like, on one side it would be nice if it were EoJ style (with multiple character interacting all at once), but on the other, in that format it would not work, as you need weapons and items to be "held" by each character.

Jugga · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2010, 5:42:21 pm »

First off, are you thinking of selling this game to a developer, or just using it for personal use? If it's just for personal use, using pennies (or whatever the lowest coin currency of your country is) would be a lot easier than having to design a "paper clock/dial thingie." Just keep a shallow cup nearby, and take out or add in a few pennies in keeping with your current AP count.

I'm lost on the board thing, but I haven't had time to really study it yet. Give me a few days, and maybe I'll look over it and see if I can't comprehend what it is your doing.

ImDoneItsOver · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2010, 5:51:14 pm »

Isn't the KillZone name Trademarked or at least copyrighted?

ImDoneItsOver · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2010, 5:54:29 pm »

Im all for homemade CCG/TCG's. Id be interested in seeing what you have done

Ive got a lot of Indy games under my belt, as a play tester (Lost Legacy, Legacy The Coming Guardian, Dungeon Crawler)

thepineapple1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2010, 6:19:03 pm »

Jugga:
No I'm not trying to sell it to developers, but I won't mind having money thrown at me

I'm just making it for the fun of making it, same as I did with the EoJ Custom Cards.

ImDoneItsOver:
I've actually left the trademark and stuff on the bottom of every card. Now that I care about that, but without it, the cards would look too square.

I've just uploaded one of the cards.
I will upload another file ASAP explaining the things.
Keep in mind this is a work in progress, so... 'don't be hating'
http://flic.kr/p/8P5cYy

Sample card (no background) + description:
http://flic.kr/p/8P2gcr

Jugga · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2010, 6:53:52 pm »

If you were planning on me being the financier, you're about to hit a major bumb in the road.

Impressive work, as always.

Keep the black backgrounds. It not only looks better, but it's more in keeping with the game as well.

Jugga · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2010, 2:42:09 pm »

OK, Buddy. I took a look. And before I can offer any more opinions, you'll have to answer a few more questions:

1. I've never played Pokemon or any other TCG other than EoJ before. Where did you come up with that concept for a game board? I'd much prefer a 16X16 board, but to it's credit, your idea allows the player to need only a little bit of table space to play it.

2. To answer your bench question about "would this option benefit the game," you'd need to tell me how the game would play without it. It appears to be designed into the game from the outset.

3. I couldn't answer the vehicle question without fully understanding the rest of the game concept (i.e. in light of your answer to #2)

thepineapple1 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2010, 4:12:34 pm »

1. The "pokemon" style board, would allow combat for only 1 character at a time.

2. The bench (in pokemon) is the place where u put your characters to wait for battle.
a) when your "active character" gets knocked out, you chose any of the pokemon from your bench to become your active.
b) during your turn (before attacking) you can retreat the "active character" and replace it with a character from the bench.
(the main difference is that having a bench, allows you to equip weapons on those characters before battle, so once you put them into battle they are all set as you wanted them to).

3. Hope #2 was clear enough

Jugga · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2010, 5:42:06 pm »

Well, one answer to your vehicle problem could be to allow each side to place a vehicle at the outset of the game, so that there is always at least one on the board to play a card against. How you were going to have vehicles effect your main character (if at all) and the primary game is another question.

Question about 2b: You'll need to explain how many cards are drawn at the outset, and how many you get to play each turn. It sounds like you're saying that you start with nothing on the bench, and must make a character active before you can apply any weapons cards or bench him. Then, once benched, he's already equipped with the weapon he had if you decide to make him active again (or are you saying you're allowed to change weapons on a character while he's benched?)

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Author Topic: Killzone Card Game - HELP (Read 31301 times)